Posts by jonathan dough

88

What do you make of the Alpha Course?

by boyzone in

i've recently been invited to attend an alpha course at my local baptist church and for the last 2 weeks i've gone along.

its all been very amiable and pleasant until this week.

the subject was "why and how should i pray?

jonathan dough

Well from my point of view it'd be better if he answered me first then I might be able to trust him

A bit presumptuous considering we are just bugs in His eyes. Maybe He answered you and you didn't notice or didn't like the answer. Maybe your heart wasn't right.

Narkissos

Thank you for relating your experience with this. Did you really think God lead people in opposite directions? Wow, thats quite a thought isn't it?

Interesting thought, Nark. He leads us to evil so we can see and know it. Then away so we can do our part to expose it and help others escape it? But isn't there Scripture to the effect that God never tempts us with evil? I'm paraphrasing.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-6.html#32

89

Being Under Cult Mind Control is a Psychological Disorder - Steve Hassan

by flipper in

jw
friends

thought perhaps some newer members who haven't heard some of hassan's thoughts on mind control might relate to this from their own experiences in jehovah's witnesses .

even though mind control is initiated by the cult involved in controlling it's members - hassan points out - it actually becomes a psychological disorder which can entrap the victim himself or herself - all the while - as they are being controlled by the leaders of cults.. on page 55 of hassan's book " releasing the bonds - empowering people to think for themselves " it states what happens in a destructive cult , " in a destructive cult, the locus of control shifts to the group or it's leader .

the new recruit abdicates his ability to make decisions.

jonathan dough

It's almost like a mass hypnotic state (which is ironic really, as JWs are fearful of hypnotism as a form of mind control)

---------

One way to reinforce thought is by repetition, that is why when an article is read at the meeting, the people reiterate what they hear afterward. It is a reinforcement technique and does work as a form of control.

Absolutely true. The writing is hypnotic in and of itself. It pulls you in. There really are demonic forces at work. No other explanation. The repetition reinforces the propaganda.

183

Hubby is Researching 607...

by cognac in

jw
friends

would you say that's the beginning of the end?

hubby's researching if the beginning date can be proven from the bible its starting date is 607. clearly, he won't find the answer.... here's hoping he will see the light... .

jonathan dough

and the conquest of Babylon by Cyrus was in 538 BC.

539

http://144000.110mb.com/607/i-3.html#G

48

College

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i know i have threatened to do this before, like when i first left.

but i am thinking of going to college.

this time, i feel determined.

jonathan dough

Go for it. Make sure you take some humanity courses. Courses that stretch your analytical abilities. It's not all about the money. Best years of my life.

88

What do you make of the Alpha Course?

by boyzone in

i've recently been invited to attend an alpha course at my local baptist church and for the last 2 weeks i've gone along.

its all been very amiable and pleasant until this week.

the subject was "why and how should i pray?

jonathan dough

any other belief in magic invisible characters,

Your explanation is a bit convoluted, a bit tortured, but I'll try to figure out what you're trying to say. My question is, how does this prove there is no God? That's your position, try to defend that. Even the Muslims believe in God. The fact that someone is born into a religion isn't the end of the discussion. What matters is whether they can change, convert. Not each and every one is branded for life with that particular faith.

Its much more difficult to be personally convinced when you concede that any and all other religions have equal justification to believe themselves to be right about their definitions.

I don't believe that, if I understand you correctly. Of course every other religion has the right to "believe themselves to be right about their definitions" if you mean they have a right to believe what they want to believe. But that's not the issue. The issue is whether someone born into a particular religion is stuck there forever and can't change or convert. And nothing you have said, not one thing, proves that there is no God, which is really what we're talking about.

The reason some people don't answer you is that you say silly things and it's usually not worth the effort to type a response. But I'll play your game for now. For instance when you said

It seems difficult (impossible) for you to answer the question. I asked what religion 'you' would be, not what religion 'some' would be.

Let me just tell you the answer seeing as you can't bring yourself to admit it out loud :-)

You would be Muslim. 97% likely. 99.9% likely if you were born in Aghanistan.

You're not thinking clearly and you're spinning your wheels in the mud, arguing for its own sake. First, it doesn't make any difference if it is "someone" or "me" because we are dealing with a principle and that principle would be the same regardles of who we are talking about. And secondly, since you want to split hairs, if it was ME born in Iraq or Afghanistan I'd be Christian, just like my parents who raised me. I'm assuming I get to keep my birth mother and birth family. And if I was a Muslim born into a Muslim family then it's not ME but it really is "someone" else. And if that hypothetical character were born into a Muslim family he'd at least believe in God, which you don't. And let's not forget that your Muslim friend might even be raised into that 3 percent of Christian Muslims in Iraq, and he would likewise at least concede the existence of his creator.

How much education do you have if I might ask? Did you get through high school? Have a college degree? Just curious. Because what you wrote below would never get you out of the 10th grade. And I'm not trying to be mean, but you're stoking a fire that doesn't exist and you want to be shown right to save face, nothing more. And, I suspect getting in the last word keeps you up at night.

Its much more difficult to be personally convinced when you concede that any and all other religions have equal justification to believe themselves to be right about their definitions.

You still haven't shown how your position, whatever that might be, proves there is no God. Will one of you atheists please step in and give this frustrated individual a hand? Maybe you could reword his argument for us. Furthermore:

The reason you have a problem admitting the coincidental nature of your religious outcome

I have no problem with admitting this as I've said before. Of course the odds are if I'm born in the West I'd probably be Christian. So what? Therefore there is no God?What exactly is your point? In English, please.

JD II

VIII. Jesus Christ, as helper with respect to propitiation and legal intermediary, is not discarded at the end of the thousand year reign; as the propitiation, the sacrificed Lamb and mediator of the New Covenant he is present forever, to intercede on man’s behalf, without which man cannot have access to God, be reconciled to the Almighty or have his name written permanently in the Book of Life.

IX. Conclusion: All Christian believers must be parties to the New Covenant which is everlasting, not temporary; otherwise, there is no hope for salvation in this life or the next.

9

FINAL UPDATE ON MY PIONEER SISTER'S FADE

by SusanHere in

jw
friends

my sister was a pioneer for decades.

she loved the jehovah's witness religion with all her heart and nobody anywhere could have tried harder to live its teachings.

but now, finally .... she's washed her hands of the jehovah's witnesses once and for all.

jonathan dough

The key, the biggest chip-breaker, was being able to show her through advance knowledge of what the next publication, next convention, or even next meeting would discuss, that JWs are NOT the ONLY ones doing good things.

And they're not the only ones who preach the gospel. No need to go to church to hear the word. Listen for it on the radio. It is everywhere. You don't have to agree with all of it, I don't, but much of it is wonderful stuff. Of course you'll have to turn off the T.V. But it is important that you don't filter everything they say through the Society's literature. If you do you'll find yourself saying "that's not true, that's not true, etc.," when in fact it is and you're simply spitting out JW propaganda. In other words, you've been brainwashed over the years. You almost have to start from scratch.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html#intro

9

where does the literal end and the symbolic begin with JW's

by kriptonian7 in

im looking for some new insight on some thoughts of mine.

jw's do not beleive in hell.

hell fire is symbolic i was always taught.

jonathan dough

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html

17

Article by LDS Writer

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

article by lds writer (mormon) .

the world's best non-lds missionary programs .

best missionary literature printing and distribution program: jehovah's witnesses .

jonathan dough

I'm sure the usual posters will flame away, but hopefully a few will appreciate this small effort at clarification.

Good luck and God bless,

SusanHere, LDS now and forever

I know I appreciate it. Thank you.

88

What do you make of the Alpha Course?

by boyzone in

i've recently been invited to attend an alpha course at my local baptist church and for the last 2 weeks i've gone along.

its all been very amiable and pleasant until this week.

the subject was "why and how should i pray?

jonathan dough

that people don't think about coming to God naturally, that something like culture is what send them to it and depending on where you grow up, that will be the prodominate experience.

I suspect there are some people in the world who come to God out of terror for their well being or the loss of loved ones even if they have convinced themselves or have accepted atheism. Of course if you're raised in a Muslim country you'll probably start out as Muslim, but so what? What is the point of this line of thought? It's not really going anywhere. I also now you're not arguing this PS but trying to paraphrase Beesty's argument.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html#A

88

What do you make of the Alpha Course?

by boyzone in

i've recently been invited to attend an alpha course at my local baptist church and for the last 2 weeks i've gone along.

its all been very amiable and pleasant until this week.

the subject was "why and how should i pray?

jonathan dough

I think that besty's point is that people don't think about coming to God naturally, that something like culture is what send them to it and depending on where you grow up, that will be the prodominate experience.

I think he is saying that "God" is not a natural by product of thought but a learned "reaction".

And that is enough to prove there is no God? What is wrong about being taught about God to learn of Him? How does that disprove His existence? And, how did prehistoric man, if there is such a thing and/or however that might be defined, start to believe in a higher being if there was no one there to teach him about that superior being? I'm talking about the first one, the one left to his own devices. I'm not talking about "knowing" God in detail but believing in him. I'm not sure what you mean by "learned reaction" unless you just mean something learned.